Greetings.
    If you are well, it is well.
    I've just received the okay to forward the notes I took of
a pagan round table discussion on spirituality. The participants 
come from a variety of pagan traditions. These notes were posted 
to the local pagan newsgroup. One point to clarify is that I have
recorded what others said, and said very little myself. Wherever 
the first person pronoun occurs that is a direct quote from some
other participant. I may or may not agree with it; I just didn't
say it. 
    May these notes prove interesting.
                                              Fare very Well,
                                                 Michael 
    
    Here are some unofficial notes on the Spiritual Traditions
gathering which took place at Cafe Wim on Tuesday evening (16th
September 1997). These are not perfect. Sometimes I listened so
hard I didn't record what was said. In places my handwriting was
hard for me to read. Still, I hope this will offer those who could
not be there a feeling for what happened.
    For most of the meeting there were thirteen people present.
    It started with a consideration of the question what is
spirituality. Among the answers:
    One practises religion; one lives spirituality.
    Paganism is not what we believe, but what we are, what we do.
    Religion is less tangible than spirituality.
    Faith exists in both religion and spirituality.
    The spirituality of Mother Theresa; she outstepped the religion.
    Getting in touch, transcending the normal.        
    What about a higher being or essence?
    A connection to more things than oneself, getting beyond the 
self. A connection with the non-physical, the non-human.
    Divinity and spirituality are right here in our lives; not when
I die, and when I meditate I elsewhere, rather it's right here, how
I am part of the world.
    In Yoga reach the point where realization atman (individual
spirit) equals Brahman (the Divine)
    Spirituality is attainment. Doesn't have to be. Duality. Yin &
Yang.
    What must be done to attain?
    We can understand the greatness of our own spirit.
    The more you understand your spirit, the more you understand
others. Control over our lives.
    Everyone has a seed. Whether we choose to nurture it, follow a
path, learning about self, to learn what's out there and what's
within.
    People are lazy, fearful, fear of death. Religion cushions,
don't be afraid. Your death is necessary for the cycle of things.
    In religion someone gives you food, in spirituality you learn
yourself how to find food. 
    Is spirituality manifest in all we do?
    Personality. How much we pay attention to our spirituality.
    Control over spirituality.
    Our choice of taking the easy or the hard, of getting up to go
to work or sleeping in to noon and losing job.
    Look at self, past and present, face the unpleasant part of us.
    Goal, each person has own.
    For one it could be great knowledge, for another control over 
self, and others, if one so ethically inclined, for a third a Zen 
kind of enlightenment sitting on a hilltop, for a fourth Mother 
Theresa's helping of others.
    Yes, but without the celibacy.
    Monasticism is a means to achieve.
    There are five billion people; there are five billion paths
to spirituality.
    No objective good and evil.
    End goal enlightenment, but...
    Universal principles. Being true to self is a central universal
in spirituality.
    Can't control it; how does the container control itself.
    In a sense it is us. 
    Some people don't control selves; others do.
    If you believe you don't have a dark side, you can be surprised.
    Also the flip side, people who don't see the good in themselves.
    Spirituality is not goodness, but balance.
    I prefer lighter and darker to good and bad.
    Code of ethics, depends on the person.
    Can be loosely defined. Can be strict, vegetarian, etc. Can be
I'll try not to piss people off. Both are codes of ethics.
    The more spiritual someone is the harder it is to attach a label
to them such as good or bad.
    Possible to live spiritually without a code of ethics.
    Ethics relative.
    Don't hurt people, but what hurts people varies from place to 
place and person to person.
    Is spirituality individual or group?
    Individual.
    Can be part of group, based on the commonality of the realm of
ideas. Helping others is part of it. 
    We're all the same and we're all different.
    Quote from Oscar Wilde, "Truth ceases to be true when more than
one person believes in it." To a large extent I think that of 
spirituality.
    A common spirituality has the danger of becoming religion.
    Religion is a way for people to get together and share
spirituality. At best.
    Common points in spirituality.
    Founders of religions try to share with followers, but it
becomes rigid, canonized, a hollow shell.
    What is spiritual experience. Anything that you experience
which you define as spiritual.
    Spiritual experience is something that affects something in
you. Define something.
    Intangible emotions, etc.
    Falling in love can be a very spiritual experience.
    Spiritual experience produces some change in consciousness.
    Any sensation out of the five senses.
    It is something that shakes you very much emotionally.
    Spirit. = Emot.
    Not all emot. = Spirit.
    Any real spiritual experience produces change in consciousness.
    It can also be reaffirming.
    Even reaffirmations change you.
    Does spirituality lead to higher forms of truth.
    As one become true to oneself, a lot of hypocritical pieces
drop away, so it does lead to a higher form of truth.
    Break, during which the following gem was uttered:    
    "There used to be a theory that if an infinite number of monkeys
were given typewriters they could produce all the great works. Now,
thanks to the Internet, we know this theory is false."
    Religion doesn't suck; it's just so easily corruptible.
    How do we live our spirituality?
    Ideally in everything I do.
    How?
    Influence the world around me, reflects my own pattern.
    For me, along with a lot of other stuff, try to as much as 
possible (obviously there are times I'm brushing teeth or burning
toast) to remind myself what it means to exist in the world now
lived, relationship with bird.
    Tend to keep in balance, natural modes of things, natural
patterns to the way things flow.
    Through action, prayer.
    Finding out what I have to do, learning how to do, how to
act, how group acts.
    Reflection in the spiritual world.
    Increased connection to everything around me.
    Realizing you have to think about it. At some point you have 
to say what do I know and what do I do about it? How do I live
life with others? How do I think of them? Relations with them?
    We are all journeying, even if we are not all on the same path.
    Try to be more patient, and try to learn from them.
    Everything is sacred, humans, grass, even annoying people.
    Have more patience try to be more understanding.
Enter 14th and 15th persons.
    Getting along with others, but also maintenance of self,
the balance of the two.
    If you try to please everyone, you please no one.
    Be nice. 
    Three fold law.
    If you do wrong, you create a reality where wrong can be done to 
you.
    Strive for balance.
    More finding myself, listening to others, getting something from
them, learning from them, but not following them.
    Meditation, doing exercise?
    Looks beyond physical, focused.
    Set aside period every day.
    Meditation, energy work, different words, introspective. 
    Process of learning who you are.
    Go out far from civilization, walk for a day until exhausted.
    Religion has a fixed goal, getting past Peter. Spirituality has
a goal in motion, growth.
    Ritual, prayer, another focus.
    Ritual is a tool.
    Worship, gods, entities.
    If every leaf and tree sacred.
    Sometimes need props to focus, sometimes don't.
    Some of us don't worship.
    My path sun, sky, moon, more of thank you, acknowledgement of 
being and help, not hero worship.
    Respect of other spirits.
    Worship is not always you are great and mighty. It's an
acknowledgement, a respect. This is higher than me.
    Can be acknowledging wonder of a spider's work, Wow this is 
awesome, this is something, not kow towing to the spider, not I a 
worm compared to you.
    Self Sacrifice?
    Sorting out stuff in the present, and in the past, self 
sacrifice.
    It doesn't necessarily work when I try to focus. I get hit over
the head at the weirdest times.
    Meditation if nothing else will calm you down.
    Don't just do something, sit there.
    If you want to enjoy the scenery along the road, don't go 180.
    Meditation both shutting off everything, and opening up to all
else out there. For both we need to focus and shut off the white 
noise. 
    I wrote something, and the words just flowed. God exists, 
whatever god is from inside.
    Mind altering substances? 
    Not much.
    Difficult to know.
    Depends on culture, substance, how it's used, person, why 
you're using it.
    Need self discipline, self knowledge for the shaman's path.
    If you can't build bookshelves, it doesn't matter if you have
a set of power tools.
    It can help induce white noise.
    Opening a new door, but not a path. New experience, something
to explore in self. Doesn't get you far. For some people it can
become attachment and take them off the path.
    When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything you see 
looks like a nail.
    Spirits? Elementals?
    There's a lot to be learned from the outside world, if one can
listen.
    How listen? Born or develope?
    Anyone may listen. It's individual what in particular, 
specifically you're trying to listen to. You have to be willing to
listen, get rid of expectations.
    Listening to a tree, if you expect it to speak English, you'll
never hear anything. After 4 or 5 months, someone told me about
tree he sleeps under for twenty minutes or so, but he feels as if
he's been asleep for 5 hours. "You have just talked to a tree," I
told him.
    Next gathering in 2 weeks, same place, same time.                                  
                                                 Fare very Well,    
                                                    Michael